Transcript 

Kamila 

Hey college kids, just a few things here in the description box or whatever the description box is called for a podcast. 

Kamila 

I’ve linked Doctor Frindle website in house test prep if you want to go check it out. 

Kamila 

Also, next week I’ll be releasing an interview with Michelle who is currently attending or she just got into Harvard and this is her first year and. 

Kamila 

It was my first Harvard interview. 

Kamila 

Finally got someone willing to come on and be interviewed. 

Kamila 

So that’ll be released next week as part one, and then the week after will be Part 2. 

Kamila 

So subscribe so you do not miss that and enjoy the episode. 

Kamila 

Hey college kids, welcome back to my podcast who cares about College in today’s episode, I’m interviewing Dr Frindle, so if you could introduce yourself. 

Dr. Frindell 

Hi, I’m doctor Kelly Frindle and I’ve been teaching test prep for about the last 20 years. I’ve been working with students for the S80 and the AC T and helping students get ready for college. 

Kamila 

Alright, so let’s jump in right into act. 

Kamila 

First question is, even though many schools are not requiring it or are still uncertain about whether they’re going to have any testing in the future, why should people take it? 

Kamila 

This is really important, like. 

Kamila 

Why should we still? 

Kamila 

Take the SATACT. 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, and that is a good question because right now there is a lot of uncertainty about what is happening with the S80 and a CT with college. 

Dr. Frindell 

Admissions so that first year of college, excuse me, the first year of COVID, most colleges did drop the requirements for tests because the tests weren’t being offered. 

Dr. Frindell 

And then some schools said they were going to be test optional for a few years. 

Dr. Frindell 

Some went completely test optional. 

Dr. Frindell 

The University of California school system went totally test blind, which means they don’t look at tests at all. 

Dr. Frindell 

But what it turns out is that. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of the schools that say their. 

Dr. Frindell 

Test optional are kind of test. 

Dr. Frindell 

Optional in name only. 

Dr. Frindell 

And So what people are finding out is even though they’re saying you don’t have to submit the. 

Dr. Frindell 

Scores it is actually to most. 

Dr. Frindell 

People’s advantage to go ahead and submit scores to a lot of schools and this is still changing quite a bit. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so a lot of the schools originally had a three-year timeline and that three-year timeline is coming to an end in the next year or so and schools are going to be making different decisions and some schools have actually already gone back to requiring school scores like MIT. 

Dr. Frindell 

Has decided they’re going to require scores from now going into the future, and so it’s tempting to say, oh, I don’t have to take it. 

Dr. Frindell 

All these schools are test optional, and some of them legitimately are, but plenty of them you still really. 

Dr. Frindell 

Do need test. 

Dr. Frindell 

Scores and it besides the admissions part, a lot of scholarships and merit aid are still based on scores as well. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so not taking tests and not having those scores available can keep you out of accessing those scholarships. 

Kamila 

And one thing like this test optional is beneficial for some students ’cause they just some people just can’t do standardized testing. 

Kamila 

So, and because of this, I think people are like, oh, I need a really high score. 

Kamila 

If I want to submit. 

Kamila 

How do you know when your score will help you versus hurt you because you would presume like the people with the highest scores are only submitting? 

Kamila 

People with like mid range are not really submitting any. 

Kamila 

Or so at what point do you know like I should actually submit my super score or not? 

Great. And I don’t. 

Dr. Frindell 

Deal with the admission side of things. 

Dr. Frindell 

I mostly just do test prep, but I’ve been talking to a lot of educational consultants who do that side of things. 

Dr. Frindell 

And what they’ve told me is generally, if you fall within at least the 50th percentile of scores for the school, and scores are available, you can find them easily on the Internet if you just Google the name of your school. 

Dr. Frindell 

And 50th percentile SA T or AC T will tell you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Where the median score. 

Dr. Frindell 

And if you’re generally in that range or above, it does seem to make sense to submit your scores and. 

Dr. Frindell 

Different schools have different requirements and different score ranges and so. 

Dr. Frindell 

For one school. 

Dr. Frindell 

It may make sense to estimate your scores, but for a more selective school it it might potentially be better not to submit them. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so it is. 

Dr. Frindell 

It is individual and case by case. 

Dr. Frindell 

But if you’re generally in about the middle or above, it’s worth it to submit your score. 

Kamila 

All right, so let’s get into scholarships. 

 Kamila 

One thing before you get into like S 18, what you can do with that with the PSAT. 

Kamila 

I think most people know when they take it. 

Kamila 

Like, I think junior year. 

Kamila 

Yeah, this one, I took it that it’s for national merit. 

Kamila 

You reach a certain benchmark, you qualify and you keep going semi finalists, whatever, right? 

Kamila 

But besides that, can you use your PSAT? 

Kamila 

For anything else, just a quick question. 

Dr. Frindell 

Not really, no. 

Dr. Frindell 

So the PCT is typically given junior year. 

Dr. Frindell 

Some schools have their students take it earlier. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have a lot of students who take it in 10th grade, occasionally in 9th grade and. 

Dr. Frindell 

Junior year is the year that the scores count for national merit and about, I think it’s around 1% of people qualify potentially for national merit. 

Dr. Frindell 

And the score is just the first part. 

Dr. Frindell 

There’s a whole bunch of other steps you have to take after that. 

Dr. Frindell 

You have to validate it with an essay T. 

Dr. Frindell 

Score later and. 

Dr. Frindell 

So in the past, national merit. 

Dr. Frindell 

Was a really good. 

Dr. Frindell 

Scholarship at a lot of schools. 

Dr. Frindell 

But in the past ten years or so, a lot of that merit aid has dropped out, and so many schools don’t even offer it at all. 

Dr. Frindell 

Some schools will offer you just a very small scholarship, and if you’re looking at very selective schools, most of those students are going to be national merit scholars anyway, and so it’s it’s not necessarily something that is super special. 

Dr. Frindell 

But it it. 

Dr. Frindell 

Can be helpful. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s a good designation. 

Dr. Frindell 

To have it looks good on your. 

Dr. Frindell 

Resume, but that is the main thing that it is used for. 

Dr. Frindell 

The other thing that it is useful for though is to demonstrate interest to college to different colleges because you can elect to send information about your scores just kind of generally out there into the college world and schools can contact you based on your. 

Dr. Frindell 

Interests, and so some people like it for that reason. 

Dr. Frindell 

But other than national merit, aid is mostly just a practice exam for most people. 

Kamila 

OK, so now we can move onto SATACT and like what you can do with that? 

Kamila 

So I’ll let you take it from here. Like what scholarship opportunities are available for SATACT? 

Dr. Frindell 

So a lot of that is school dependent, but especially a lot of the state schools have very clear criteria. 

Dr. Frindell 

If you get this particular score on an essay T or AC T, you qualify for scholarships. 

Dr. Frindell 

So like in Florida I know they have scholarship called bright scholars and if you reach a certain level on those, you automatically qualify for scholarships. 

Dr. Frindell 

And different states have different criteria like that as well and so. 

Dr. Frindell 

Especially if you know. 

Dr. Frindell 

You’re going to a state school and they have criteria like that. 

Dr. Frindell 

It can be really worth spending the time and energy. 

Dr. Frindell 

Give money to get your score up, because sometimes just a small investment can lead to a really large scholarship and they can make a significant difference for people. 

Dr. Frindell 

And the individual. 

Dr. Frindell 

Schools have their own criteria, and there are also independent scholarships as well, and a lot of those are based on scores. 

Kamila 

And I don’t know if you’ll notice or not ’cause there’s more on, like the financial aid side for school, but like for schools that are not state schools that don’t have the clear cut requirements, but they do give merit aid. 

Kamila 

Maybe you have like more selective schools that give merit aid. 

Kamila 

Like, how dependent is your merit aid on your SATACT score? Like, do you think it contributes a lot? Maybe for like the more upper schools? 

Speaker 1 

From from what I’ve. 

Dr. Frindell 

Heard this scores do factor in pretty heavily, often intermarried, and again that isn’t my area so I’m not as well versed in. 

Dr. Frindell 

It but I do. 

Dr. Frindell 

What I have heard is that at the very selective schools, merit aid is sometimes harder to come by because everybody qualifies for it, and so often some some of the higher level. 

Dr. Frindell 

People don’t even offer very much merit aid at all because all of their students are excellent and it’s it’s difficult to distinguish people on those characteristics. 

Kamila 

Alright, so. 

Kamila 

Another question, probably yes or no answer is can you use your SA T or AC T for any outside scholarships that are not any like institutional forms of aid? 

Dr. Frindell 

You can and so. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of organizations in the communities offer scholarships, and sometimes they’re smaller scholarships, so they might be $500.00 or $1000. 

Dr. Frindell 

But several small scholarships can add up to big money, and a lot of those because they’re not involved necessarily in edge. 

Dr. Frindell 

They might be like a Rotary. 

Dr. Frindell 

Group or a church? 

Dr. Frindell 

Group or a religious group. 

Dr. Frindell 

They use scores as an easy way to ring people and compare people, and quite a few of those scholarships still are using scores as as a basis for choosing the scholarships. 

Kamila 

OK. 

Kamila 

And would you recommend just like going on Google, finding like scholarship search engines and just going from there? 

Dr. Frindell 

Yeah, and so if. 

Dr. Frindell 

You Google scholarship for your sports, or for your religion, or for any activities you’re in, or even your. 

Dr. Frindell 

Town you’ll find stuff. 

Dr. Frindell 

And there are directories. 

Dr. Frindell 

I don’t know one offhand that I can tell you, but there are directories of. 

Dr. Frindell 

Scholarships and generally. 

Dr. Frindell 

Some of those directories ask you to pay money. 

Dr. Frindell 

For them in. 

Dr. Frindell 

General, you should not pay. 

Dr. Frindell 

Money for a directory of scholarships. 

Dr. Frindell 

You can usually find most of that information for free and other sources. 

Kamila 

Yeah, and all like. 

Kamila 

Put some scholarship websites down, like the description ’cause. 

Kamila 

I know there are a lot of free ones that actually works. 

Kamila 

Like, yeah, you should not be paying anything you’re paying for. 

Kamila 

I don’t wouldn’t trust that. 

Dr. Frindell 

Right, yeah. 

Dr. Frindell 

All of that information is freely available elsewhere. 

Kamila 

OK, so next let’s talk more specifically about we can talk about safety strategies and the ACC ’cause, they’re two completely different tests. 

Kamila 

So let’s start with that. 

Kamila 

So for both the math section and then the English section, what strategies would you recommend and like how to approach it when you’re starting to prepare? 

Dr. Frindell 

So for the math section, especially after these last few kovid years, one of the things that I really recommend before you even get started with the actual prep is brushing up on just your standard math skills. 

Dr. Frindell 

And because on the S80 there is a note calculator section, you do need to know your times tables. You need to know how to do long division by hand. 

Dr. Frindell 

You need to know how to find percents and decimals and that sort. 

Dr. Frindell 

Of thing and what I’ve found is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Quite a few students have for either forgotten. 

Dr. Frindell 

No skills or they never learn them because everybody. 

Dr. Frindell 

Missed so much math. 

Dr. Frindell 

In those early years of Kovid and so the first thing I have people do and it seems kind of silly to be studying times tables when you’re a junior. 

Dr. Frindell 

But if you don’t know your times tables, it is really difficult to do the essay T math section with no calculator. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so that’s the first thing I have people do is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Study the basics. 

Dr. Frindell 

Get brushed up again on their timetables, relearn math formulas, relearn math vocab. 

Dr. Frindell 

Three, and then once you have that basic foundation, then you can start into working on the problems and for S80. 

Dr. Frindell 

The math, especially, is its own version of tricky necessity. 

Dr. Frindell 

Math is very weird, and it is not really the standard way that you might learn in school and. 

Dr. Frindell 

So learning there, there are resources that you can seek out. 

Dr. Frindell 

Khan Academy has some good free videos. 

Dr. Frindell 

There’s plenty of stuff on the Internet you can. 

Dr. Frindell 

Get a book. 

Dr. Frindell 

But it is worth it to learn some of the strategies for the math section because they are not intuitive and if nobody tells you them or you aren’t exposed to them in some way, there are few students who will just naturally get them. 

Dr. Frindell 

But I found for most people it isn’t intuitive at all and they do need to learn those things. 

Dr. Frindell 

But the good news about the asset map and. 

Dr. Frindell 

This is true for all of test prep for all. 

Dr. Frindell 

The tests, the material is highly predictable. It is the same stuff over and over and over again, and so I usually have my students use the official books for S80. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s a big giant blue book with about 1300 pages in it. It’s got 10 practice tests, and that information is actually freely available on the Internet as well. From Khan Academy. They provide those tests. 

Dr. Frindell 

And for the English section, the English is the grammar part, and for that I really recommend that people review grammar rules first. 

Dr. Frindell 

Just like I haven’t reviewed the math skills, I haven’t reviewed grammar rules. 

Dr. Frindell 

I’m finding that a lot of students don’t know how to use semi colons. 

Dr. Frindell 

They don’t know how to use a dash, they. 

Dr. Frindell 

Don’t know what. 

Dr. Frindell 

A colons for and. 

Dr. Frindell 

They may have known, but they don’t remember. 

Dr. Frindell 

Or again, they may have just missed that in these last few years, so a good grammar review at the beginning is important, and then going through the material over and over again through practice problems is also. 

Dr. Frindell 

A really key step, because like I was saying earlier, this stuff is predictable and most of test prep is just pattern recognition. 

Dr. Frindell 

And the way you get better at patterns. 

Dr. Frindell 

Is to see them and do them, and the more problems you can do, the better. 

Dr. Frindell 

But what’s really important too is, as you’re doing, practice problems. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have a lot of students. 

Dr. Frindell 

Come to me and they say, Oh well, I worked through. 

Dr. Frindell 

All the the problems in the book and I said, well, did you check your answers? 

Dr. Frindell 

Did you see? 

Dr. Frindell 

What you missed? 

Dr. Frindell 

And they say well. 

Dr. Frindell 

No, and just doing problems. 

Dr. Frindell 

Without reviewing what you’ve missed and seeing those patterns and learning where your weaknesses, solar isn’t really very useful. 

Kamila 

OK, OK. And you skipped on UH-1 very important for us STEM kids. How do you do the reading? 

Kamila 

Message is not too late for me, but Oh my God. 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, and the the reading. 

Dr. Frindell 

Passages are I find are one of the harder sections to improve and. 

Dr. Frindell 

It called it. 

Dr. Frindell 

Part of the issue with that is test prep. 

Dr. Frindell 

Reading skills are not necessarily the same as reading comprehension skills, and so there are strategies for dealing with the reading. 

Dr. Frindell 

Sections about how fast treated and which questions to do first and that sort of thing. 

Dr. Frindell 

And also there there are strategies within this section. 

Dr. Frindell 

So there are keywords that often tip you off that in answer choices wrong making if it has extreme words in it. 

Dr. Frindell 

If it has words like all or must or never, that’s usually a red flag that an answer. 

Dr. Frindell 

Is wrong, and so there there are some test strategies like that and how to go back to the passage and read around where they tell you. 

Dr. Frindell 

But one of. 

Dr. Frindell 

The challenging things with test prep is helping people be better readers because it just isn’t geared necessarily towards helping you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Be a better reader. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s helping you to take the reading section on a test better. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so that that is a little bit of a more complicated answer because the answer really starts go back in the past five years ago and start reading a lot. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so for students who are younger, that’s really what I recommend is read as much. 

Dr. Frindell 

As you can, and read as many sources you can. 

Dr. Frindell 

Read the news, read you know, read the back of the cereal box. 

Dr. Frindell 

Read things on the Internet. 

Dr. Frindell 

Find good books to read. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because once you do, get to your junior year. 

Dr. Frindell 

Reading it is challenging thing to to change your. 

Dr. Frindell 

Skill level not. 

Kamila 

And I’ll just say something as someone who’s taking the S80. 

Kamila 

Twice my scores are released tomorrow. 

Kamila 

My second says I’m waiting, but uh, yeah, reading for me it’s that’s the worst section by far. 

Kamila 

And I’ll say like the answer is in the passage, you should not be interpreting anything like Reddit Digest, understand, don’t make any assumptions, don’t make any interpretations. 

Kamila 

’cause the. 

Kamila 

It’s going to. 

Kamila 

Very clearly state what the answer is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Right, and and and that. 

Kamila 

I think people. 

Kamila 

That’s what I. 

Kamila 

Did in here. 

Dr. Frindell 

That’s something I have to tell my students too, is there is no outside knowledge required or needed on the reading section. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so you shouldn’t, even if you know that topic very well, ’cause, sometimes you’ll get a topic you’re like, Oh yeah, I just studied this in school. 

Dr. Frindell 

Or this is something I’m super interested? 

Dr. Frindell 

In and you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Do not want to put any of your own. 

Dr. Frindell 

Interpretation in it and so typically if it’s. 

Dr. Frindell 

A detailed question. 

Dr. Frindell 

You should be able to point to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Something in the passage that says here is exactly that answer, and it will be worded differently. 

Dr. Frindell 

But there should be something you can point to, and for the questions I ask you to infer things or to think about what the author was feeling or something. 

Dr. Frindell 

Even though there may not be an exact place you can point to, there’s still an idea in there and you’re not just making up something. 

Kamila 

On your. 

Kamila 

Yeah, you you never. 

Kamila 

That was my mistake on the first time, it was like making up stuff and. 

Kamila 

I was like but no. 

Kamila 

So let’s move on to a CT. 

Kamila 

I also took the AC, T was not. 

Kamila 

That good for. 

Kamila 

Me, but anyways, so can you quickly explain how the ACT differs from the S80 and then? 

Kamila 

And again, like tips and advice for each section, yes. 

Dr. Frindell 

So the ECT and the essay T. 

Dr. Frindell 

They used to be very different from each other. 

Dr. Frindell 

They’ve become more similar over the years, and so there aren’t as many differences as they used to be. 

Dr. Frindell 

The essay T has four sections. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s got a reading comprehension section in English section, which is grammar the math now. 

Dr. Frindell 

Calculator and the math calculator section, ECT. 

Dr. Frindell 

Also has four sections, but they’re slightly different. 

Dr. Frindell 

It has a reading comprehension, it has the English for the grammar. 

Dr. Frindell 

It has one math section which you can use a calculator for. 

Dr. Frindell 

All of it. 

Dr. Frindell 

And then it also has a science. 

Dr. Frindell 

Section and the the Reading and the English are fairly similar to the S80 reading and English. There’s there are some structural differences, but in general the content is. 

Kamila 

It’s a bit more fast-paced, the writing, yes. Yeah, that one’s more fast-paced. 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, the timing on the ACT is indeed harder than the S80. You have fewer seconds per question, but the content tends to be a little bit more straightforward, and so with the math section there is only one mass section. You can use a calculator for it. 

Dr. Frindell 

But I do find that that the AC TMAP is more like the stuff that you’re used to learning in school and it’s largely just here’s a problem, do it and SAT math is more find this really tricky way to do. 

Speaker 3 

This and then do that, and then take the reciprocal of. 

Dr. Frindell 

It and then do this. 

Dr. Frindell 

And that is not a way you’ve learned in school, ECT. 

Dr. Frindell 

Math is mostly. 

Dr. Frindell 

Did you learn this stuff? 

Dr. Frindell 

School or not? 

Dr. Frindell 

And in that way, it’s a little bit easier to prepare for. This science section tends to be the wild card for a lot of people, because there’s no equivalent on the S80. 

Dr. Frindell 

And the science section is an interesting section because it’s about science, but you don’t really need to know science to do it because what they do. 

Dr. Frindell 

Is they give you about. 

Dr. Frindell 

Six different experiments, and the experiments can be about anything. 

Dr. Frindell 

They can be biology or physics or chemistry. 

Dr. Frindell 

And they give you data. 

Dr. Frindell 

And some information about the study that they conducted and largely it’s a data interpretation. 

Dr. Frindell 

Kind of. 

Dr. Frindell 

So you are finding information from the charts. 

Dr. Frindell 

You’re making inferences about the hypotheses that they give you. 

Dr. Frindell 

You might be describing the procedure that they did and understanding the steps of the scientific method. 

Dr. Frindell 

There are a couple of questions. 

Dr. Frindell 

There’s 40 questions on the science and typically about. 

Dr. Frindell 

Two to three of. 

Dr. Frindell 

Them might be outside knowledge type questions where? 

Dr. Frindell 

You do need to know a little bit. 

Dr. Frindell 

What about they often ask about the pH scale, or photosynthesis, or scientific method steps, but largely, since it’s just about science, you don’t need to sit down and learn science necessarily. 

Dr. Frindell 

So it’s not like you need to memorize the periodic table. 

Dr. Frindell 

You don’t have to learn chemistry formulas, you’re just you’re doing a section about science and. 

Dr. Frindell 

Often when people see that one the first time, it tends to freak a lot of people out. 

Dr. Frindell 

So like, what was this? 

Dr. Frindell 

I don’t know what to do with it, but that section is also pretty learnable and pretty coachable as well. 

Dr. Frindell 

And that one in particular is a good one to spend a lot of time with just. 

Dr. Frindell 

Changed lots of sections and left the practice. 

Dr. Frindell 

Sections of it because. 

Dr. Frindell 

That’s the only way to get better at it, since it is so different from other types of testing items. 

Kamila 

And with the students that you’ve worked with, like. 

Kamila 

Would do you notice like certain students are better with the SAT and certain students are better? 

Kamila 

With the act. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have seen some patterns. 

Dr. Frindell 

What I’ve noticed is that students. 

Dr. Frindell 

Who are good at? 

Dr. Frindell 

Tests tend to be. 

Dr. Frindell 

Better tips tend to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Be fine at both tests. 

Dr. Frindell 

They they. 

Dr. Frindell 

Will usually score well. 

But for. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of test takers at who really struggle with tests I found. 

Dr. Frindell 

Personally I found that asked is often a little bit easier of a test to study for, and the timing is harder that that is true. 

Dr. Frindell 

But sometimes it doesn’t matter, especially for people who are kind of middle level test takers. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of the really hard questions. 

Dr. Frindell 

Which often at the end, they’re so hard that those are students who are probably not going to get those questions right anyway. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so if they don’t have quite enough time to finish everything, often it doesn’t matter because there’s some of the questions that are being. 

Dr. Frindell 

On their level anyway. 

Dr. Frindell 

And for me personally, a lot of the students I work with have extended time for various learning differences or ADHD or anxiety. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so the timing on the actie with extended time is is reasonably manageable and there are ways to manage it if you have the regular time for it and. 

Dr. Frindell 

For a lot. 

Dr. Frindell 

Of students like. 

Dr. Frindell 

We’re talking about earlier. The math on the S80 is so tricky that if you are not good at math to begin with or you struggle with. 

Dr. Frindell 

It is often hard. 

Dr. Frindell 

To learn how to do math in the essay T way, because it is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Its own thing. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so it’s it’s interesting. 

Kamila 

Not a good way. 

I I love. 

Dr. Frindell 

ICT math. 

Dr. Frindell 

I think it’s fun and I’ve met a few people who like it too, but for. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of people. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s just kind of torture and. 

Dr. Frindell 

So often people. 

Dr. Frindell 

Find it a little easier to study for a CT, but it is individual and the way that I determine which tests we should prepare for ’cause in general use. 

Dr. Frindell 

Pick one and prepare for it, because it’s hard to to split your energy between both of them. 

Dr. Frindell 

I usually just have people take a practice test and practice 80 into practice act, and sometimes there are clear differences that, OK, this one is clearly better than the other one. 

Dr. Frindell 

And if that’s. 

Speaker 3 

The case you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Should always go with that one, because there’s no reason to work hard to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Pull your lower score. 

Dr. Frindell 

Just up to get up to where. 

Dr. Frindell 

Your other one is when you could just improve the other one to begin with. 

Dr. Frindell 

If they are reasonably similar to each other, which happens sometimes, then I usually talk with the student and see what their own preferences were. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because some people are very clear, I want nothing to do with the HCT or I want nothing to do. 

Dr. Frindell 

With the S80. 

Dr. Frindell 

And if they have a preference and their scores are about. 

Dr. Frindell 

Equal and I’m happy to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Go with that one and the. 

Dr. Frindell 

The good thing is preparing for one of them. 

Dr. Frindell 

Mostly prepares you for the other one anyway, because the content does overlap so much now, and so a fair number of my students may end up taking the other test at some point anyway, because the work that we’ve done will help. 

Dr. Frindell 

Them with the other one ending. 

Kamila 

All right. So we’ve talked about asked, we’ll come back to like studying tips, but we’re going to talk about another test, which is the S80 and the E, which are like boarding school magnet, like those kind of schools that require a test selling just like a public school. So I’m going to let you take it from here, like what are those? 

Kamila 

Test UM. 

Kamila 

Do are they like standardized, like the SATACT, or do they vary school by school? 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, so the S80 and the IE are standardized tests. They’re they’re like bsat in the act, but they’re for students who are looking to go to boarding schools or private schools, and typically people take them usually in either 5th grade or 8th grade, typically looking to enter into 6th grade for middle school or 9th grade for high school. 

Dr. Frindell 

And the tests do. 

Dr. Frindell 

Have some similarities to SAT&A. 

Dr. Frindell 

CT they’re structured sort of the same way and they have the same importance and for both of those tests they they cover pretty similar material. 

Dr. Frindell 

They have vocabulary on them, they have reading comprehension, and then they also have math. 

Dr. Frindell 

And because they are given to younger students, you cannot use a calculator on either. 

Dr. Frindell 

Those tests, and so those skills we were talking about earlier, the multiplication and the division and percents and fractions, those are all super important to know. 

Dr. Frindell 

To be able to to work on. 

Dr. Frindell 

Those tests and vocabulary. 

Dr. Frindell 

Turns out to be a huge part as well. 

Dr. Frindell 

So on the SSA T, they have synonyms where they just give you a word and then they give you 5 answer choices and you pick one that’s similar. 

Dr. Frindell 

And they also have analogies, which a lot of students have not seen. 

Dr. Frindell 

They used to be more common, but they’ve been taken off a lot of tests, so things like. 

Dr. Frindell 

Kitten is to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Cat as and then you can like puppy is to dog and those are largely dependent. 

Dr. Frindell 

There’s some there’s some test prep tricks for those, but those are largely dependent on do you know this word or not. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so for those tests, sending vocabulary is a tremendously important thing. 

Dr. Frindell 

So I have my students. 

Dr. Frindell 

Studying flash cards and. 

Dr. Frindell 

List of high frequency words and for the essay T there used to be a lot of vocabulary on the CT, so I always had my student study vocabulary as well and luckily now you don’t have to. 

Dr. Frindell 

But for these younger tests you you do and the same for the. 

Dr. Frindell 

I see they also have synonyms, and then they have what are called sentence completions where they give you a sentence with a blank. 

Dr. Frindell 

And you are using context clues to fill in the appropriate vocabulary word for those, and the the strategies from studying for those tests are very similar to SAT&ACT. You need the basic math skills. 

Dr. Frindell 

For those ones, you do need to study vocabulary and then for the reading comprehension the same issue As for the older tests. 

Dr. Frindell 

You can learn the test prep strategies, but it is difficult to increase your comprehension and your reading speed in a short amount of time, and so those are things that are best worked on in previous years leading to the test. 

Kamila 

And one quick question before we keep going. 

Kamila 

What’s the difference between the SSA and the IE? 

Dr. Frindell 

So the they’re basically from two different companies, so just like SAT&ACT or two different companies, it’s the same thing? 

Dr. Frindell 

And so different schools want or accept different scores, but they’re they’re largely similar to each other. 

Dr. Frindell 

They’re just two different companies. 

Kamila 

OK, so. 

Kamila 

We’re good with that. 

Kamila 

We can go into like more study tips now. 

Kamila 

So we can answer. 

Kamila 

Can you answer for both S ATT and then? 

Kamila 

As I say, T i.e. 

Kamila 

Maybe this is more for parents so they know or maybe students to how long from the test date should you start studying and also. 

Kamila 

So is there like a better time of the year to like choose a test date like do you think there are some test dates like, oh, it’s better for you to do it this time ’cause you have less stress this time. 

Kamila 

So like, how do you choose a test date? 

Kamila 

And then how far from the test date should you start studying? 

Dr. Frindell 

Prepare, yes, and that is a good question to think about because you do want to start putting things in place early, because if you wait too long it makes everything so much harder to try to scramble and get everything fit in very quickly. And so for my high school students for SAT and A/C. 

Dr. Frindell 

T there are differing opinions about this, but I personally usually like to have my students take at least something by the end of the fall of their junior year. 

Dr. Frindell 

So by by December or so of junior year, I like to see people have at least one test under. 

Dr. Frindell 

Their belt and the reason? 

Dr. Frindell 

This is because it leaves plenty of time to take a second. 

Dr. Frindell 

Tests, and most students will end up taking a test a second. 

Dr. Frindell 

Time and it’s fine to do that. 

Dr. Frindell 

There’s no problem in doing that. 

Dr. Frindell 

And that allows people to either take. 

Dr. Frindell 

It in spring or. 

Dr. Frindell 

Potentially in the summer before their junior year. 

Dr. Frindell 

But there are some people who say wait until the spring of your junior year, and for a lot of students that’s probably fine. 

Dr. Frindell 

But for me I I feel more comfortable doing it a little bit. 

Dr. Frindell 

Earlier so that people have more options and some of that actually is dependent too on what math class people are taking. 

Dr. Frindell 

If students are just in Algebra 2 during their junior year, they may want to wait a little bit more towards the spring because there is quite a bit of Algebra 2 material on both tests. 

Dr. Frindell 

But if people are already in Precal as juniors, it doesn’t matter as much because they’ve had the material they need. 

Dr. Frindell 

For the test. 

Dr. Frindell 

And typically I recommend starting probably somewhere between three to six months before you’re going to take a first Test to study. 

Dr. Frindell 

And some of that is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Dependent on where people are starting out and a practice test can give you a good idea of where you’re starting out. 

Dr. Frindell 

So if you take a practice test sometime towards the end of your trip, excuse me, towards the end of your sophomore year or maybe that early summer before junior year, that can give you a little bit of a clue to how much time you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Need to be. 

Dr. Frindell 

Spending for things but it. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s months, I. 

Dr. Frindell 

Don’t usually recommend years. 

Dr. Frindell 

There are some people who like to start with their kids in 9th grade. 

Dr. Frindell 

And keep doing. 

Dr. Frindell 

It and I just, I, I don’t believe in that particularly one because there’s they will burn out. 

Dr. Frindell 

That is a long time to prepare for a test for two the tests are about to change anyway. The S80 is going to be changing in the next year and a half, and it’s three it is. It’s going digital. 

It is. 

Kamila 

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Frindell 

In spring of 24 and so yes, and that will change everything. So any studying that people are doing right now, if they’re younger than 10th or 11th grade, they’re going to be taking an entirely different test. 

Kamila 

I got an. 

Kamila 

E-mail about that. 

Dr. Frindell 

Anyway, and so I typically. 

Dr. Frindell 

Don’t recommend starting that early. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s OK to practice math skills and reading skills and. 

Dr. Frindell 

And a lot of things along those lines, but I don’t recommend full prep at that time. 

Dr. Frindell 

And for the for. 

Dr. Frindell 

The SSA and I see pretty similar. 

Dr. Frindell 

Those tests are usually offered mostly in the fall because of how the admission cycle work, and with those students I usually recommend they. 

Dr. Frindell 

Start around. 

Dr. Frindell 

Somewhere between June and August before. 

Dr. Frindell 

They take the test. 

Dr. Frindell 

In late fall. 

Kamila 

Alright, so another thing is, let’s say you choose three months before your city. 

Kamila 

Like let’s say you choose whatever city and then you choose to study three months before it. 

Kamila 

So with within those three months, how would you kind of separate your time or like how would you like to study in those? 

Kamila 

Three months leading up to the test, like what is a general routine that you would give? 

Dr. Frindell 

So I would recommend if people are studying on their own, the thing that I would recommend highly at the beginning is make an actual plan and write it down. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because I I know both from having been a student and also working with students for so long. There’s so many things in so many competing interests, and SAT&ACT are not always the most fun or exciting things. 

Dr. Frindell 

To study for it. 

Dr. Frindell 

And if you don’t have an actual plan to do it. 

Dr. Frindell 

Yeah, I have. 

Dr. Frindell 

A lot of parents who hand their kid a book and I like your study this and the book ends up under the bed and. 

Dr. Frindell 

I think it never looks at it, and I can’t say I blame them too much. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s it’s hard to to do an errand. 

Dr. Frindell 

So coming up with an actual plan of OK, on Tuesdays and Thursdays I’m going to spend an hour working on these things and once a month I’m going to take a practice test and or having some kind of general plan in that way to to provide. 

Dr. Frindell 

In structure and. 

Dr. Frindell 

At the beginning, like we spoke about earlier, covering those basic skills, working through practice sections and then taking some crack. 

Dr. Frindell 

Just tests and timing is part of it in there too. 

Dr. Frindell 

With my students, I usually wait till about halfway through to start working on the timing. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because it’s important to me that my students learn how to do things correctly 1st and learn what the tricks are and learn the skills and learn how to answer problems and once they have those down. 

Dr. Frindell 

Then they can start working on the time. 

Dr. Frindell 

And timing is a thing like reading comprehension. It’s hard to change because by the time you’re 151617, your processing speed is pretty much. 

Dr. Frindell 

What it is? 

Dr. Frindell 

And that is not going to change a lot, so I can’t people come to me now like why I can’t finish the tests, help me be able to get through it faster and I can’t always help. 

Dr. Frindell 

People get through it faster, but. 

Dr. Frindell 

What I can help them do is figure out which problems are we’re spending time on, because there are some problems that are so hard that most people are going to miss them, and if there’s a pretty high likelihood you’re going to miss a problem you shouldn’t spend 5 minutes on. 

Dr. Frindell 

But other question you’re going to miss anyway when you could get maybe two easier questions right in that same amount of time. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so part of time management is trying to work faster, but also working smarter to. 

Dr. Frindell 

Know what’s worth. 

Dr. Frindell 

It and what’s not, and some of that comes with experience and practice as well. 

Kamila 

And another thing is let’s say. 

Kamila 

Let’s say you’re really good at one section in general. 

Kamila 

Like like you’re a math student you’re already in like calc. 

Kamila 

By the time you’re in your junior year, you very well know your math. 

Kamila 

You don’t need a practice, but you know you’ve done a practice since you’ve gotten like, a really high score. 

Kamila 

Do you think it’s worth? 

Kamila 

Continuing to practice even if you’re like really, really, you’re solid on that, or should you just focus on the other section? 

What I do in? 

Dr. Frindell 

That case ’cause. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have some students like that who are scoring almost perfect on one section and then struggling in the others. 

Dr. Frindell 

What I typically. 

Dr. Frindell 

Do when I’m working. 

Dr. Frindell 

With them privately, I usually have them. 

Dr. Frindell 

Do some of those sections at home for homework. 

Dr. Frindell 

And not as much as the other. 

Dr. Frindell 

Sections, but it is important. 

Dr. Frindell 

To keep working on those because if you just leave it, sometimes you you lose some of those skills. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so I have them do some typically on their own and then if they have questions on things we can go over those, but we don’t necessarily spend as much time together. 

Dr. Frindell 

On them but. 

Dr. Frindell 

There, sometimes people who are really skilled at math actually struggle with some of the easier questions. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because if you’re in calculus as a sophomore or junior. 

Dr. Frindell 

There there’s a. 

Dr. Frindell 

Fair amount of 4th and 7th grade math on the easier problems of SAT&ACT and if you haven’t done 4th or 7th grade math. 

Dr. Frindell 

In a lot of years, and you’re busy doing calculus, it’s easy to forget some of that stuff and so and it’s silly to lose points on easy questions because you haven’t reviewed them. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so there is the balance I do have people still work on them some. 

Dr. Frindell 

But that frees us up to focus on on the other sections and some of test prep. 

Dr. Frindell 

Honestly, is there’s a balance to between figuring out where am I likely to get points back and what am I weak on? 

Dr. Frindell 

And sometimes the things that you’re weak on you can improve to a certain extent, but it also makes sense to really focus on the places where you’re likely to. 

Dr. Frindell 

To get those easy points back as well. 

Kamila 

Alright, so my really my only last question is. 

Kamila 

Is to like tips to deal with test anxiety ’cause. 

Kamila 

You know, some people are like just not good at testing. 

Kamila 

And some people get really anxious, like, they can do it, but once they enter the test room, it’s like, Oh my God, it’s actually happening so. 

Kamila 

Can you give some like tips that students have? 

Kamila 

Used in the past and have been proven successful with ACC or like any of the boarding school tests. 

Dr. Frindell 

And what I find is something I talk with my students about all the time, and we talk about this early and. 

Dr. Frindell 

Often is. 

Dr. Frindell 

Knowing what these tests are and what they measure and what they don’t measure. 

Dr. Frindell 

Because a lot of people get really wound up about these tests because they’ve heard about the importance, you know, all their life. 

Dr. Frindell 

And this is the thing that determines. 

Speaker 3 

Your future and. 

Dr. Frindell 

It really isn’t. 

Dr. Frindell 

And a lot of people really think. 

Dr. Frindell 

SAT&ACT tests or IQ tests, so they say. How smart you. 

Speaker 1 

Right. 

Dr. Frindell 

Are and they’re not. 

Dr. Frindell 

They’re not IQ tests at all, and really all they measure is how well you do on this test on this day. 

Dr. Frindell 

And that’s it. 

Dr. Frindell 

And a lot of people are really caught up in thinking, Oh my test score is a measure of how smart I am or how well I’m going to do at school or if I’m a good person or not. 

Dr. Frindell 

And I have a lot of. 

Dr. Frindell 

People who come. 

Dr. Frindell 

To me and they, they see their very successful parents and their siblings who may be SAT that just walked into the testing room and got a. 

Dr. Frindell 

34 or 35? 

Dr. Frindell 

Out of 36 on the ACT, with no preparation, and they come to me and they say why? You know what’s wrong with me? 

Dr. Frindell 

Why am I? 

Dr. Frindell 

Why am I dumb? 

Dr. Frindell 

Why AM? 

Dr. Frindell 

I struggling with this ’cause I can’t walk in and get. 

Dr. Frindell 

A 34 or. 

Dr. Frindell 

35 and there are some people out there who can do that, but the. 

Dr. Frindell 

Truth is, that isn’t most of us. 

Dr. Frindell 

And it for most. 

Dr. Frindell 

People, these tests, their heart, they’re designed to be that way. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so just knowing at the beginning of this that it you’re not expected to know how to do all of it when you walk into the room, it is learnable, it is coachable, and it also doesn’t define your future. 

Dr. Frindell 

Knowing that part often calms people down. 

Dr. Frindell 

Little bit ’cause, I, I. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have a lot of students who come to me and they’re just like, I can’t do it. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s too much. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so put it in perspective is always an important thing to do and. 

Dr. Frindell 

Then for the actual stress management tips for things. 

Dr. Frindell 

The studying is really important, so being able to make a decision to make it a priority. 

Dr. Frindell 

Helps with some of that stress because a lot of my students country and they just, they haven’t made the time to study and so then they they feel bad that they haven’t done their work and then it just spirals. 

Dr. Frindell 

If I didn’t do this OK, now I’m too scared to do this next one. 

Dr. Frindell 

And now three weeks. 

Dr. Frindell 

Have gone by and they have done nothing. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so having a schedule in place is helpful. 

Dr. Frindell 

And also I sometimes have to tell my students to some work is always better than no work. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so even if you have a schedule, if you. 

Dr. Frindell 

Get a little bit. 

Dr. Frindell 

Off track, do whatever you can because. 

 Dr. Frindell 

20 minutes of math. 

Dr. Frindell 

Is better than no minutes of math and so. 

Dr. Frindell 

And you can’t. 

Dr. Frindell 

Learn everything, either. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so there there are a few special people in the world who can just take the tests and get a perfect score. 

Dr. Frindell 

But it it it is a very small percentage of people who can do that. 

Dr. Frindell 

And for everyone else, not everything on the test is going to be learnable. 

Dr. Frindell 

And so if you can let that go, the idea. 

Dr. Frindell 

That I have to know everything. 

Dr. Frindell 

That frees you up a little bit mentally to say, OK, I’m going to work on the. 

Dr. Frindell 

Things I’m strong on. 

Dr. Frindell 

I know there’s a couple things that aren’t intended. 

Dr. Frindell 

For me and I. 

Dr. Frindell 

Will do the best within the abilities that. 

Dr. Frindell 

I have because. 

Dr. Frindell 

Their test prep is it is successful. 

Dr. Frindell 

Usually, if you put the time and energy and effort into it, most people can see improvements on their score. 

Dr. Frindell 

There are real silly ceilings to people scores though, and there is a certain point you will hit where you really have hit your level of your score, but up until then there’s usually plenty of room for. 

Dr. Frindell 

Improvement, but just knowing it isn’t the end of the world. 

Dr. Frindell 

It isn’t everything. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s important, sure, but it is. 

Dr. Frindell 

It is not a measure of self worth at all. 

Kamila 

Alright, thank you Doctor Freundl for coming on today. 

Kamila 

Are you in Pacific Time? 

Dr. Frindell 

I am actually in Hawaii and so I’m on Hawaii time. 

Kamila 

Oh, OK. 

Kamila 

So like early morning there. 

Dr. Frindell 

It is 9:30. 

Speaker 3 

Which is not too bad I’ve been doing. 

Speaker 3 

Meetings I’ve been doing. 

Dr. Frindell 

Meetings at 6, but things just happened. 

Dr. Frindell 

Early here, so there’s no. 

Dr. Frindell 

Right. 

Kamila 

Oh, alright, have a good rest of your day then. 

Dr. Frindell 

Are you are you still you’re still in high school? 

Speaker 3 

I hadn’t really thought, I thought. 

Speaker 3 

You were in college? 

Kamila 

Senior High School. 

Speaker 3 

Where are you playing? 

Kamila 

Oh God. 

Kamila 

So I live in Maryland. 

Kamila 

So UMBC, MD. 

Kamila 

Forget my schools, Drexel GWU. 

Kamila 

Uhm, Urbana, Champaign. 

Kamila 

Champaign was pronounced. 

Kamila 

Uhm, Pitt? 

Kamila 

Northeastern is like my dream school. 

Kamila 

I love that school to death. 

Kamila 

Northeastern Vanderbilt is probably like my. 

Kamila 

Lowest acceptance school, Georgia Tech, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, and probably like one more than I’m forgetting. 

Kamila 

That’s what I thought. 

Dr. Frindell 

Got it. 

Dr. Frindell 

So where are we? 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s what, September, so are you just putting in applications now? 

Speaker 1 

Ha ha ha. Uh. 

Not yet. 

Kamila 

It’s a process. 

Kamila 

It’s a lot of minor early because I can’t do ET. 

Kamila 

I don’t have like the financial security for e.g., but I am doing EA for everything I can, and most of them I’m going to be doing EA. 

Kamila 

Except for Vanderbilt and GW ’cause, they don’t offer EA so, and they’re all November 1st, so. 

Kamila 

I gotta get on that, you know? 

Dr. Frindell 

Get don’t my, my, my friendly advice for this. 

Dr. Frindell 

Don’t leave him till the last minute. 

Dr. Frindell 

It’s like test prep because it just the longer you leave them and they are painful to do, but just get him knocked out and then be done with them. 

Dr. Frindell 

So you could you let us eat your senior then? 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, just. 

Speaker 3 

Get them done. 

Speaker 3 

Get those stupid as he’s written. 

Dr. Frindell 

And then enjoy the rest of your year. 

Kamila 

Yeah, this makes. 

Kamila 

Me glad to know, like in less. 

Kamila 

Than two months. 

Kamila 

All of what high school has led. 

Kamila 

Up to be over. 

Dr. Frindell 

Yes, that’s awesome. 

Speaker 3 

All right, well. 

Speaker 3 

Thank you so much. 

Speaker 3 

I appreciate it. 

Speaker 3 

This is a very admirable adventure adventure for you, so Congrats and I will look forward to it. 

Speaker 3 

I’ll put it on my social media and stuff. 

Kamila 

Alright, thank you. Enjoy Hawaii. 

Dr. Frindell 

Alright, thank you. 

Dr. Frindell 

See you.