Kate talks a lot about how in high school, we are all initially confined to a very small bubble. However, extending beyond the opportunities high school offers you can define the kind of impact you have and how competitive of an applicant you become.

Part 2 is here.

Transcription

Kate
Yeah, for me, it was kind of more of an opposite process where I took the top 20 schools and then just eliminated all the schools that I didn’t want to go to.

Kamila
Hey, college kids, welcome back to my podcast, who cares about college? In today’s episode, I’ll be interviewing Kate. So Kate, could you please introduce yourself?

Kate
Yeah. Hey, everyone, my name is Kate. I’m originally from Seattle, I just graduated from Duke University Class of 2021. I graduated a little bit early. And I studied computer science with a certificate in innovation and entrepreneurship.

Kamila
Okay, so can you take us to back to like middle school, high school, whatever this was for you? Can you explain the relationship between education and between education and your family? So how important was it for you and your family to receive a good education? Yeah, so

Kate
I am the child of immigrants. Both my parents came from China, and they both got Bachelor’s degrees in China as well before they came here. And my mom also got a master’s degree in the US. And so both my parents have higher education. And education was really important. Growing up, it was like ever since middle school, it’s like, okay, sort of thinking about college, where do you want to go? What do you want to study? And, and my brother who’s four years older than me, he went to Cornell. And so that was always something that was kind of on my mind growing up is okay, where do I want to go? What do I want to study? And kind of how does how, like education was just very important in my life.

Kamila
And your brother going to a top tier school? How did that I guess, enhance or reinforce the, the pressure on you to also go to a top tier school, or at least, like, try your hardest in high school to do so? Yeah, so

Kate
my brother, so he’s four years older than me. So when he was in the middle of high school, I was in the middle of middle school. And there was a lot of pressure put on him by my parents to be thinking a lot about college and I think like, the kind of person my brother as he didn’t really want to think about it that much. Like, he was definitely not a an overachiever, I guess. And, and so that was kind of the point of a lot of conflict in my family. I on the other hand, I was really different. I guess, like my parents would always described me as an overachiever. So I feel like they weren’t that worried about me. Um, but my brother, actually, he was first admitted to Carnegie Mellon, and he committed, and he actually then got off the waitlist for Cornell. And so I think my parents were really, I like, obviously, they were very glad that he got into Cornell. But it was kind of more of a pleasant surprise than I guess, like a letdown. In that sense. I feel like a lot of Asian families, it’s like Harvard or nothing. But I think my brother kind of set the stage for me, then. for them not to be, you know, super let down if I didn’t go to like, oh, only the number one school and only that’s the one that’s only important.

Kamila
And with your family, prioritizing education, and making sure like, you get your straight A’s you participate in extracurriculars, and you’re going to aim for the top school. Were you ever given a chance to think about, oh, is college? Really for me? Do I even want to go to a top school in my like content with going to just a school in Washington?

Kate
I think for me, it was more important than anything else to get away from home, I really wanted to go out of state, I wanted to go to a small liberal arts college. And like, maybe not as small as like Williams, but definitely something smaller than a state school, something that wasn’t so engineering heavy. And because I mean, I mean, my favorite subject in high school was English. And so I really liked the kind of the humanities aspect. Um, and so I mean, it was always on my mind, like, I know, so many people who go to top 10 schools. And so it’s always on the mind of, okay, you know, which 1am I going to go to is kind of more expected rather than, Oh, this is a great option, but you don’t have to do it, it’s kind of more like, this is what you should be aiming for. And that was definitely something that was also echoed in my entire high school. I, I went to a magnet program and so kind of everyone who’s graduating pretty much goes to a top 20 school. And and, and so that was also it wasn’t just my family, it was, you know, my entire community, essentially, that was kind of saying, you know, these are the best schools to be going to and I obviously, like I don’t disagree, like I think that the top 20 schools are a great atmosphere, a great community, and you get a great network out of it as well.

Kamila
Yeah. And I also I don’t go to a magnet school, but I also go to a school where a lot of people do go to, you know, the top schools and there’s the expectation there, and it creates this sort of dynamic Make between classmates. So it’s like, oh, did you get a 97? On the Test? Versus did you get like a 98? Or 99? So that kind of exists in my school at least very competitive there. So did you have the same kind of atmosphere in your school, like extremely competitive to the point where you were comparing percentages? And like, Oh, I got to this school, but then this school ranks higher or something. So did you have that kind of atmosphere in your school?

Kate
Um, I would say it wasn’t as much so competitive in terms of numbers, but I definitely think it was very competitive in terms of maybe more so like extracurriculars? Like, what are you doing? Like, what are you achieving? That was definitely something that, like, no one went around and asked each other, like, Oh, what did you get on that CT or something, but it was kind of unspoken of like, oh, that person’s gonna go to a really good school, because they do a lot of really great stuff. And that person’s gonna go to maybe a less ranking school because they don’t do that much stuff.

Kamila
Before we go on to the extracurriculars, which seems to be kind of the focus that you had in your high school, let’s quickly talk about grades. So can you explain the kind of classes you took in your magnet school? And again, did you take up like tons of APS, IBS and honors? And like, can you explain the kind you took and your idea behind it? And how you how you approach taking those classes was a very analytical for you? Or were you like, oh, this sounds interesting. I’ll take this or this sounds interesting. I’ll take that.

Kate
Yeah, um, oh, god, my high school was very hard. Um, we were an AP IB High School. So we did both. And we so for my magnet program, actually, we did IB a year early than it’s normally taken. So I did, I finished my ib diploma, end of my junior year. Um, and it was kind of like, because we had so because it was like this special program, it kind of felt like everything was already lined up for us like, okay, for like your freshman year, you’re going to take AP world, then your second year, you’re going to take AP gov, IB, IB government, I think. And then your third year, you know, you choose one higher level or two higher levels, and then you take AP US like it was very, I think I flipped up some of them. But it was very, like, that’s what’s expected. And every year we got, I think, one or two electives that we could kind of choose. So I, I chose kind of, I would say more, more of the fun classes, I took like video production. And for my IB, high level, higher level, I did business management. And so that was like something that I thought was fun. And a lot of my friends did like higher level physics or higher level math, and I was like, I definitely am not gonna do that. Um, so yeah, as for APS, I ended up taking, I want to say nine AP tests, like by the time I graduated, as for IBS, like obviously did the entire diploma. So I had like seven IB tests that I was doing. Um, and then our senior year, we kind of essentially like finished the public school recommendation. And so our school kind of just came up with random stuff. So we had two class periods off to do an internship. And then we took like, we took my econ, we took like, macro and micro, econ. And like, this weird, like poetry class, essentially, they kind of just, you know, came up with things for us to do. And so the senior year was really relaxed. But software engineers definitely really intense.

Kamila
Oh, I have a question about senior years. So I’ve been like looking into it. And I know that it’s very rare that this happens. But a lot of colleges, they do expect that people who have been having a rigorous schedule, all throughout high school continue into senior year. And I’ve heard like very few cases of people just completely, like easing off senior year, and then they get their admissions like revoked. So did you like have that fear that you wouldn’t look as competitive in your senior year like just your overall class?

Kate
Well, I the thing is that everyone did it. So this was like, everyone did an internship. Everyone did this their senior year, it was very expected. As for like slacking off your senior year, I think that only applies if you like, slack off your grades. So like a lot of schools will say, you have to have like at least a 3.0 GPA for your senior year or something. Just make sure you’re not like getting like C’s and DS. Um, I’ve never heard of anyone like except people who were kind of like suspended for school or something like they cheated or whatever, to actually get their offers rescinded from college. But I definitely don’t think that like I think colleges expect you to take a rigorous senior year, but they don’t necessarily expect that to be more rigorous than your junior I think that’s how I would frame it, especially your senior spring, like they understand that you worked your butt off for the past two years, and you just want to do something fun for once. And I think a lot like this is understated. I think colleges really care about what you think is fun. They don’t just care about if you can crunch numbers and memorize things. They care about what you want to do for fun. So you might think that like, oh, pursuing a music career isn’t rigorous. But that’s actually something that makes you unique. And that’s not something that they’re going to hold against you.

Kamila
Very interesting perspective on that. So back to the grades, what did your GPA end up being? What is the GPA that you sent off to the schools?

Kate
Oh, God, I don’t even I want to say it was like a 3.94. I think I got a few B’s in in high school. Somewhere between 3.9 and 4.0, is what I send off. Um, yeah. And then our school we had. So that was my unweighted. I don’t remember what my weighted was. So like, our school is kind of weird, because we had AP, IB and honors classes.

Kamila
So what is the point of having all of those? Yeah, okay,

Kate
so my school had two programs, we had the magnet program. And then we had the regular public school program. And so honors classes, like no one in my program, the magnet program did honors classes, but they were kind of more for the regular public school program. As for AP IB, I honestly don’t know why we do both. It’s kind of it’s more so like, we’re an IB school. And then you, you can do the AP if you want, but like when you’re in the magnet program, and like everyone’s an overachiever, they like end up doing the APS anyway. So they like kind of prepare people for that anyway. So yeah, it was kind of weird. So that was why like the weighted GPA was really hard to kind of understand because, obviously, like, you could be taking an honors class or an IB class. And the difficulty is going to be really different. But you can’t like start doing like 5.0 6.0. Like you can’t just keep going up. So I don’t think I sent off away to GPIO is just my unweighted.

Kamila
Interesting. And just one quick question about the APS and IBS in your school. Which one did you find to be more difficult? Because they’re relative?

Kate
Yeah. So this kind of goes into like, how weird it is, because we had some classes that were AP classes. And then we had some classes that were essentially IB classes with, like, they will help you study for the AP. Um, and so I like the only class I took that was only AP was AP world. And that was because that was before I started the IB diploma. So it’s kind of hard to gauge like which one was harder, because for the IB classes, they were all IB AP, there was like no class that was only IB.

Kamila
Also, they were just integrated into kind of Yes, actually,

Kate
it was like, Oh, well, we know you’re going to take the AP anyway. So we’ll help you study for it. But like the classes for IB.

Kamila
Interesting. So by the end, you said you took nine APs in about seven IB. So can you guys can you tell us the relative the score that you got on those tests?

Kate
Oh God I got. So for my IB, I got a total score of I think 38. And so I don’t know if you know much about IB but I don’t. So each IB test so you’re expected to take four lower level tests and to higher level tests, if I remembering correctly. And then you have this thing called theory of knowledge, which is basically a presentation it’s like another class you have to do and it’s also a presentation. So for each of those things, you get a score out of seven. So I think the theory of knowledge doesn’t count to the total score. So I think the total score you can get is a 42. And that is out of seven for like each of those tests. So like there’s like the standard ones. So you have to take higher level English you have to take her history. And then for math you could take like your level or higher level so for me I took higher level business management and higher level. I honestly can’t remember what my other high level was like maybe maybe English I don’t know. Um, but then yeah, so I got a 38 out of 42 with that, which is like a pretty standard score like there’s nothing super special about it. Um, and then for APS I, man I got like, I think I remember the ones that I didn’t do well on. So I got a three on AP French. That was not a test that I should have taken. And then I also got a three on AP Physics. b two, like I know they changed the physics test. is a little bit but it was like, it wasn’t C, but it was like b two, I think. Um, and then I got fours on AP micro, AP, maybe AP go. And I honestly don’t remember, I got a handful of fives and a handful fours. And then I got like two threes. And that’s all I remember.

Kamila
And so with taking these APS, and I guess we could say IVs as well, you obviously want to look like a competitive applicant. But with taking these Did you ever have the intention of maybe graduating a little bit early from college? Or was it purely just to look like a competitive applicant? Yeah, so

Kate
the top universities are always unique, and how they process APs. So like, some schools won’t even process AP. So like, for Duke, they will. So for Duke, um, you’re allowed to apply to AP credits to your graduation. Other than that, you can’t apply them to your graduation, but you can use them to, like, fulfill prerequisites for classes. So for example, if you took AP psych, um, but you already had like two aps that you would like used for graduation, then you could get into like, Psych, like a higher level Psych class, but like, the AP psych wouldn’t necessarily count as a credit. Um, so I, it wasn’t like a priority for me and being like, Oh, let me take this AP so that I can get another credit and graduate early, it was more so like, Oh, if I take this AP now, then I potentially won’t have to, like, take that class again. So like, for example, for my major, there’s required to have like, whatever, like three math classes, but if you took AP Calc, BC, which I did, you could like fulfill all those prerequisites. So then I wouldn’t have to take that in college. So that was more of a priority than it was to be like, oh, I want to graduate early.

Kamila
So to get like, kind of deeper into your major. Yeah. And

Kate
just just, you know, get those classes out of the way. Like, no one wants to take math 112 when they come into college, you kind of want to take the more interesting classes, right? And if you’ve already learned the knowledge, then it’s it’s kind of like moot to learn it again.

Kamila
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so we’ve finished with the very complicated AP and IB system at your school. So let’s move on to standardized tests. So did you take the LSAT or the AC t.

Kate
So I actually took both. I submitted the AC T for colleges, but I took the LSAT because I was a national merit scholar. So after I took the PSAT, they told me to take the LSAT to verify that I should be a national merit scholar or something. And I took that

Kamila
interesting. So can you tell us the preparations you had for both? Or if they were kind of the same preparation? Yeah,

Kate
so I would definitely recommend choosing one and running with it. Like some people will do better on the LSAT, some people will do better on the AC T. And that’s perfectly natural to not do equally well on both. For me, I was better at the AC T and my initial score. Like in my first test, maybe this was like sophomore year of college, or sophomore year of high school was like a 32. And so I mean, obviously, my parents were like, we really want to get you up to that. 36. Um, and so I had a tutor. Did a lot of practice tests like, it all really is practice, like, as much as I hate to say it, it is how many tests you do how many problems you try, you start recognizing patterns, you start doing better. So by the time when I took my final a CT, which I think was like junior year of college, I got a 35. And I was just like, Okay, I’m done. And as for the A CT, I definitely had like 80 books, but I didn’t really have a tutor for it necessarily. I got a 1516 once it was out of 1600 That was like the time that I took it. And yeah, I didn’t really. I mean, I guess I studied, I probably took like one or two practice tests, but I didn’t like hire a tutor and hire someone to like, help me with it.

Kamila
You know, so you definitely focus on the AC T more and you mentioned something so your parents tried to make sure that you got the highest standardized test score as possible, because if you have a low one, it’s very hard to get into a top school. So in general, how involved were your parents in your college application process whether it was grades extracurricular, so like, how involved were they?

Kate
My dad was super involved. My so my mom is the one my dad works from home and so he had a lot more like time and flexibility to be shuttling me around and everything but he was super involved. He cared a lot. And you know, he was kind of the one that was always pushing me to be doing more extracurriculars. And I think like this was especially applicable my freshman sophomore year like once I became a junior I kind of realized it more So my own that like, Okay, I want to do this, I want to do that and not so much like my dad being like, You should do this, you should do that. But yeah, he was very involved. And I’m very lucky to have had him. It was a lot of work like, he like, there’s definitely misconceptions that parents have about college. And I think it’s in your right as a student to kind of decide with your own discretion, like what is actually important to you. So like, for example, having an AC T anywhere between, I would say 33 and 36. Like, it’s the same, like, be on that call, just don’t care. I know, people from my college who got a 28 on the A CT and like, we’re not athletes. We’re not like legacies are you know, and so, I would say like, you know, don’t stress about the last like, two points, like it really doesn’t matter. Once you’re above, like a certain threshold for whatever school you’re trying to apply to.

Kamila
Yeah, that is true. And so Okay, let’s go back to a CT and a CT preparation and specifically the National Merit Scholarship you got so can you explain that a little bit? Because I’m, I’m still a sophomore, so I’m not like too familiar with it. I haven’t taken the actual LSAT.

Kate
Yeah, so that was my sophomore year, my entire school did this thing where everyone took the PSAT I think it was either my freshman or sophomore year, um, and if your PSAT score comes back high enough like your PSAT determines whether or not you should be a national merit scholar, I think that’s what it is. Um, and then the reason why I had to take the LSAT again is because once you take the PSAT like normally, people who take the PSAT end up taking the A CT anyway, but because I had never taken that CT and like a formal capacity, they wanted me to like, quote, verify my score. And so that’s why I had to take it again. But the National Merit Scholarship and like, the award, and everything is more so tied to just your PSAT.

Kamila
And is the is the National Merit Scholarship, just something to put on your application? Or is there other things that you get rewarded with?

Kate
Yeah, it’s so it’s actually money. So being, so there’s two kinds of ways that you get money. So one is being a national merit scholar. And this, I think, is a $2,000 award. It’s either 2000 or 4000. I think it’s 2000. I don’t remember. Um, the other way is that companies actually use the National Merit database to also award people I don’t know how they do, like, I don’t know how they determine who to give it to. But for example, I got an award from Citizen watch, which is like a watch company, super random. But they gave me $500 Each semester that I’m enrolled. And so there’s different ways that you can get, like scholarships from program. I don’t think you can get both. I think it’s like one or the other. But like being a national merit scholar. I mean, I know like $2,000 not like that much money. But it’s nice. And then also, yeah, you can put on your resume for sure. But I didn’t find out until like, senior spring, I think so wasn’t that relevant?

Kamila
Okay, so we’ve done all this, like, you know, stats and such like that. Oh, actually, one more thing. I want. I have a question about Subject Tests, LSAT, Subject Test. So I know a lot of top schools say we would like if you had like two or three, which means they want it on your application. So did you have any subject test? Yeah, so

Kate
I did, too. So the rule of thumb was Subject Test, this is what I was told is, as long as you get above 700, you’re fine. And so I did math, I think it’s always recommended that you do math, just because I think that’s just shucks, that subject test is like, relatively easy. Like, you don’t have to especially study for it. Um, I think I got 100 I don’t remember. And then I took English or No, I took literature, which is more known as a hard test. So I don’t know why I took it. But I got a 690. So that was kind of unfortunate. It was like really close to 700. But yeah, I just admitted those two and honestly, I don’t think I mean, I think that it’s nice to have it. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker for any college. But again, it’s kind of one of the things where it’s nice to have.

Kamila
Okay, so now we’re done with the grades and such. So let’s move on to your extracurriculars. So you said your parents were especially your dad, he suggested that you take a bunch of extra curricular. So can you explain going into high school? Or maybe this was just a lifelong thing for you? Which extracurriculars did you take and how did you approach it? Like take as much as I can, or take a few but really invest my time and like climb up to a leadership position?

Kate
Yeah, so I would say leadership positions are pivotal. Because one is like there’s so much personal growth that happens when you take on a leadership position and colleges want to see their students being leaders. The other one is like leadership comes with impact. And if you’re just like a member in eight clubs, like, that’s wonderful, and good for you, but what kind of impact can you show for it? I think that’s something that you should ask for yourself whenever you’re kind of evaluating your extracurriculars. So for me, I, I think a lot of it also ties into, like what you potentially want to study. So for example, if you want to study computer science, it’s probably recommended that you should do more computer science related extracurriculars. And something that my college advisor told me when I was applying, which I thought was interesting is that colleges are not looking to build a class of well rounded individuals, they’re looking to build a well rounded class. And what this means is that you have people who are really good at math, and then you have people who are really into social justice, and you have people who are really into physics, like you have people, students who like specialize in something in some way. And I know this is kind of unfair to people, because it’s like, well, how do I know what I want to do when I get to college. But I think like, I definitely think when I when I reflect on the people I know who went to specific schools, even though they’re not studying now, maybe what they indicated in their application, their applications were very tailored on a specific subject area, I think that that is, is a good indicator for maybe why someone would have gotten into X school and not a school, you know, um, so. So, um, that I, I didn’t decide that I wanted to, like apply as a computer science major until pretty much my senior year. Um, and because of that, I don’t think I had a great story as to why I was interested in it, but kind of just walking through my extracurriculars. And like, I was definitely an overachiever. Like, I don’t think that everyone needs to be doing all these things. Um, my freshman year, so I was definitely involved in a lot of clubs throughout high school, I wasn’t involved in that many of them in a leadership capacity. But I was involved in the robotics club. And we have this thing called future problem solvers at my school. I don’t know if you have that. It’s kind of like a competition. I was involved in science olympiad for a little bit. I was involved in, like Model UN for a little bit like I was kind of just involved in all these things like not super interested in them. My first big extracurricular came the summer after my freshman year, when my dad suggested that I reach out to a city council member and ask them if there was anything that I could like work with them on. And so I joined this nonprofit called American immigration forums, which was a student led nonprofit aiming to increase immigration dialogue in my city. And I was in that for about three years. So I was kind of in that for all of high school. And I took on a leadership position in that. Other than that, I also found it a she’s the first chapter at my high school where I was the president. This is like two years maybe. And and

Kamila
I used to repeat the name of the club again, sorry,

Kate
she’s the first. Yeah, so it’s an international nonprofit that essentially has chapters across high schools and colleges to raise money and sponsor education in third world countries. That’s what that does. So yeah, it’s, it’s it. Yeah, it’s like an international thing. And they have chapters everywhere. Um, and then I also interned a few places. So I interned at an education nonprofit that focused on analyzing education truancy. As a communications intern. I also founded a science summer camp with my friend. And this was a nonprofit that essentially like, took AP IB curriculum and taught it to middle schoolers to kind of help them prepare for high school. That one, okay, it was actually not a nonprofit. It was a for profit, we made money, but we donate a lot of it. So it’s like kind of a nonprofit. And then I also joined a national organization called families with children from China. I’m not adopted, but I had a cousin who worked with this organization as a cultural liaison. So what the organization does, it’s pretty much you know, back in the 90s, it was very common for white families to adopt children from China, especially young girls and disabled children from China. And kind of all these families are now like their children are growing up. There may be like teenagers or early teenagers, and they want to help their children get a better understanding of their heritage. So I came on board as a cultural liaison on the exec board. I was also a robotics mentor for like Mindstorms, so I would volunteer at an elementary school and help these kids like code and scratch. I interned at a hospital and these are all like, throughout different periods in my high school, like career, I didn’t do all these simultaneously. I also interned at a hospital in their cultural responsive care department. And so this was specifically on helping Asian immigrants get healthcare. This was involved in like, how do you reach these Asian immigrants? Then how do you make health care accessible to them. And then I also tutored kids in like geometry and math.

Kamila
Or so you, you found it a lot of stuff, like a lot, a lot of stuff. So with these, like top schools, I think once you do even just like a little bit of research, you’re going to find that the people that they accept are the club, find the club founders, or like organization founders, or, you know, presidents of like a bunch of clubs. So did you know that you needed this? Like you needed a bunch of leadership going into high school? Or was it more of like, you should try to be the best? And then you realize, like, it totally pays off when it comes to college acceptances?

Kate
Yeah, I think it really depends on who you are. So for example, me, I feel more like a natural leader. One of my friends was really interested in science research. And so most of his extracurriculars were doing internships at research labs and conducting Alzheimer’s research or whatever. And he goes MIT. So I feel like, it really depends on who you are, if you gravitate towards leadership, and I say, take the initiative found your own club take on the president role. Um, but you know, if that’s not so much your jam, and that’s perfectly fine. If it’s not, um, then do the things that really speak to you, but try to think about your impact. So if you are doing research, how many people are you potentially impacting? Like, how much money did you like? How many grants Did you potentially raise for your research? And I think those speak a lot to who you are, rather than just kind of like forcing yourself to do President positions, because you think it’s going to help with your college applications? Like, I think it definitely will help if you are a president versus if you are just a member of a club. But if that’s not what you’re interested in, like don’t force yourself to do it.

Kamila
And can you? So what’s really interesting to me is a lot of high school students don’t know the extent of the extracurriculars they can do outside of high school, like, I highly doubt many people know that they can find they can, you know, find a summer camp or something or like, intern with who was the you intern with? I think sophomore year, your city council?

Kate
Yeah, I interned with a city councilor. Yeah, like, I

Kamila
don’t think a lot of high schoolers, or at least to my knowledge, know that you can do this kind of stuff. So where did this sort of where did this all come from? Like, how did you know you could do all this? Yeah, so

Kate
for me, I this is just a little tidbit about myself, I don’t thrive under authority. I’m kind of someone who likes to go out and do my own thing. And so that’s why I was never a big fan of like, climbing up the ladder for clubs, let’s say let especially you know, I mean, like, it’s so funny to stay say, but like high schools are really political, like between students. And so like, you know, being elected, the president of Model UN probably would have taken a lot more work, like work that I didn’t want to do on my behalf, rather than just finding something that I wanted to do. Um, and I think another thing also is like, a lot of times you do feel constrained to your school and like, yes, yeah, there. But the thing is, it’s your school is so saturated, especially for people who go to high achieving high schools, like everyone’s trying to do something in the school, and it’s like, impossible to try to come up with something. And, and but the thing is, like, there’s so much opportunity in your community, like, for example, I know some people who, with the start of COVID, like founded some nonprofit to deliver goodie bags to senior citizens or something like that. And that’s, that’s, I think, unique and it has nothing to do with your school, you can definitely do it with your friends from high school, but I think you aren’t constrained by needing to have a teacher advisor and needing to fall under your student government rules and all those things, you can really just do whatever you want. And that’s kind of how I approached my extracurriculars to I was kind of just like, I want to do some things. I’m just gonna find someone in the community who can help me do it. And like a lot of the internships I did in the community, I found those through outside connections, or like through the Career Center at my, my high school, like a lot of people would post internships like, yeah, they’re unpaid. So if you have the means to do so, and it’s something you’re interested in, I definitely recommend it. Because there’s so much opportunity in your community, especially like the number of nonprofits in your community that already exist and are looking for more volunteers. And I think that it shows a lot if you can kind of think outside the box and find opportunities that you’re really interested in and not being constrained by like your high school and like what other people are doing.

Kamila
Yeah, that’s true. It’s true. Yeah, cuz a lot of people do think that they need to do what every high school does. And you know, I was looking at the list of clubs in my school and we have a lot of clubs, but none of them interested me. So I was like, What am I going to do now? So yeah, I’ve definitely had that feeling before. So you have a bunch of extracurriculars. And one thing I’m curious about is, you said in freshman year, you tried out a bunch of clubs, like here and there, like Model UN and such. So did you end up putting those on your college application? Or did you just say, you know, they’re not as significant as the other things I’ve done, so I’m just going to leave them out.

Kate
So one thing that my college advisor recommended was creating like a visual timeline of all the clubs that I was involved in at school. And so I put that on my like, high, like the resume that they asked you to submit. And also, like, a college resume is very different, in my opinion, from a career resume, like a professional resume. And so you put all of your awards down, you put like how much time you spent on each thing, and how many weeks of the year you did it, like a lot of specifications that you wouldn’t on like a professional resume. So the way I would describe it is if you have noticeable impact for what you did, if you can, if someone can look at your resume and ask you about it, and you can talk about it for at least five minutes on what you did, and why it was important, then put it as like a resume bullet point. If you can’t do that, um, and but you still spent time on it, like let’s say I was in Model UN for two years, then put it under like some bullet point that just says clubs, and then you just write each one like Model UN Science Olympiad, and you don’t have like all those bullet points under it.

Kamila
So okay, so let’s move on to another part of your application. Actually, can we talk more about your extracurriculars are so interesting? So can you tell us a little bit a little bit more about? So I remember you founded a summer camp with your friends. So can you tell us the process behind that and where the idea for that came from?

Kate
Yeah, so that was actually a product of the IB diploma, I think so like for IB, you need to have a quote, experience that is approved. And like some sort of I don’t, I don’t remember exactly what it was for, like, I think it’s some sort of community experience or whatever. Um, and so we decided together to found like a summer camp. And we registered as a business, we opened a bank account, it was really exciting, you know, walking into the bank, you know, and, and we marketed to elementary schools we went to, we went to different sixth grader classes and go to classes and kind of like, Hey, you want to get a head start on what you’re doing. And the thing that you realize about high achieving communities is that all the parents want their middle schoolers to be doing academic things over the summer, or, or they go to like camp, you know. And so for us, it was like the perfect market, because actually, like camp doesn’t really exist in the Pacific Northwest. Like, I was very surprised when I went to college. And everyone’s like, Oh, yeah, we might camp in junior. I was like, what is that? But yeah, so there are, there’s tons of demand for this. Because you know, all these Asian parents being like, oh, I want my kids to learn AP curriculum when they’re 12. And we made a lot of money we made. I think, 15,001

Kate
Summer? Um,

Kate
actually, yeah, so we did it to summer. So we made 15,000, over two summers. So the first summer we probably made like 5000, then the second summer, we doubled. So we made 10,000. And, yeah, it was really fun. I did more, I guess, like the business side of things I wasn’t that interested in actually like science. And my friend and the co founder, and he focused more kind of like, on curriculum, and like the science part and things like that. So it was a really great experience. I definitely think if you’re an entrepreneur person, like go for it, like build something like, no college expects you to be making billions of dollars when you apply, but I think it says a lot of your personal experience, if you have at least tried to make a company.

Kamila
Yes, true. Okay, so due to time, we’re gonna like to move on a little bit. But I have one last thing by extracurricular. So on your college application, can you give like a little snippet of what that extracurricular, like, what the extracurricular meant to you and what impact you had? Or do you just kind of put it on there and if they ask you elaborate,

Kate
so all of the things on what it meant to you, I would say put that in an essay, um, but as for impact you had on other people put it on your resume or put it on your college app of like things that you did? Um, and the reason why I say this is because I think a lot of people forget this. When you apply your college admissions officer has everything about you. They have your resume, they have your transcripts, they have all that the only time when they get to know you as a person, as more than just a list of accomplishments is through your essays. And so and you don’t like the last thing you want to do is repeat yourself because you only have so many words, and you want to make the most of them. So the like, do not start listing off your accomplishments in your essay, start talking about like, what they mean to you why you did them, what you learned how you changed as a person, and this goes best in the essay versus like in your resume, you don’t want to talk about that stuff, because they’re not necessarily looking for that they’re looking for, okay, like, what is this thing that this person did? And how, like, why was it impressive? And why something is impressive is always in the context of other people, right. So that’s how I’d make the distinction. But you definitely should talk about both inside your college app, they just belong in different places.

Kamila
And overall, you seem very busy, because you found it, you found it a bunch of things. And you were in a lot of leadership positions, which does take more time than being an ordinary member, or volunteer. And you also had a very rigorous, I guess, high school course schedule. So how was how did you manage all that? Or did you manage it very poorly. So how was high school for you like super stressful? Super, like, manageable? So how did it go for you?

Kate
So I would say that it was a very stressful time. But not because of how busy I was, I think it was more of the product of how much I was growing as a person. So like, definitely, there were nights where I wouldn’t sleep because I was working on an essay. And those are things that like, no matter how busy you are in extracurriculars, like that’s probably going to happen. Um, but all of the other stressors in my life that kind of happened from all the extracurriculars I had, it was because I was having a difficult time being a leader, and I needed to figure out how to be a better leader. And I was, it’s kind of like these personal growth moments, rather than being like, so stressed that I didn’t have time to do everything that I wanted to do. And yeah, so that’s kind of how I characterize that. And also, like, Don’t spread yourself too thin. Like I would kind of analyze before you get really involved in like busy work, let’s say for a club. How much impact can I potentially have on this community by the time I’m applying to colleges, and the reason I say this is because if your impact is going to be stagnant, no matter how much time you spend on it, then don’t spend that much time on it. Because you can be more impactful in other areas, if that makes sense.

Kamila
And with your extracurriculars, did you like genuinely enjoy all of them? Like the actual content of it?

Kate
There were definitely ones that I did for the resume. Like, she’s the first I think I did because of her resume. And, um, you know, mentoring, or Yeah, like doing the Mindstorms mentoring, like, I just did that for the resume. And also, because my friend was like, Do you want to do this with me, and I was like, okay, um, I think there’s like, no shame in doing things for the resume, but like, don’t make that the priority of your life. And also, I think, even if you are doing things for the resume, you’re still gonna gain personal relationships, you’re still gonna gain amazing, like learning experience and personal growth and all those things and don’t undercut that just because you’re doing it for the resume. Like, let’s say you’re volunteering at a soup kitchen, like, and you don’t care about soup kitchens, or whatever, like, still meet the people there and talk to the people talk to you, the adults, like, talk to more adults, when you’re a high school high schooler, um, because that’s something you don’t have that much access to. And once you talk to people who are older, like, the world becomes a little less toxic, if you go to like a really, really, you know, competitive High School, and you kind of realize, oh, yeah, there’s more things important to life than getting a five on your IEP, you know, and that was kind of what I gained from a lot of the extracurriculars that like, for example, being a board member on families with children from China, I met like 10 families of these older adults who had children from China. And I was like a peer with that, like, we worked together on this organization. And it was really interesting learning about other people’s paths, how they got to where they are, and also what their priorities are, because a lot of them their priorities are family or, you know, staying in touch with relatives who are far away. And you really don’t think about that when you’re in high school. You just think about Elan, how am I going to get into the good college? And, you know, that’s not what everything is about. And I think that was an important lesson that I learned from meeting people through my extracurriculars.

Kamila
Yeah, that’s amazing. But that is, that is really amazing that you learned that. And I have one more. We’re still on your extracurriculars, but I have one more question about extracurriculars. So I personally agree with you like high school. It’s just, I don’t know, I guess it’s kind of limiting and what you can do. And it’s kind of disappointing when you see like, this is like all I can do when you think that way. So with high school, though, do you think that it’s sometimes better to still do stuff in high school than everything out of high school? Because I have a fear that colleges are going to be like, Oh, she did a bunch of stuff out of high school. Cool. But what did she do in her own school? So did you have that kind of concern that you were really focused on your community, like outside of high school rather than in high school?

Kate
Not at all, I actually would argue the opposite. Like, if we’re okay, we can talk about this quantitatively. And qualitatively, if we’re talking about quantitatively, we’re thinking about what kind of impact are you making, any impact you’re making on your community is inevitably going to be larger in numbers than just your high school. You know, my high school was 1200 kids. And when I was working with the education, truancy, nonprofit, I was working with 10 different schools. And so the impact you’re making is going to be larger. Qualitatively, I would say that, find where you have the most opportunity for growth. For some people, this is doing Student Government. And this is making really wonderful relationships with teachers and doing research with them over the summer. For me, I just felt like I never really vibed doing that. And I wanted to go outside of my school. So if you have a really wonderful community, in your school, you have really great relationships with teachers, like take advantage of that, and make that what you’re about. But if that’s not the case for you, like don’t try to force that, like find yourself, find yourself in context of something else. And that’s what I’d recommend. So

Kamila
we’ve done a very extensive overview of your extracurricular. So let’s move on to another part of application, which is, you said is very important, which is your common app, and specifically the common app essay, Common App essay. So can you tell me how you tackled that part of your application?

Kate
Yeah, so I had a very eccentric college advisor. He was a really interesting guy, he actually owned a really, really small, like, niche private school. And his son went to his older son went to Harvard, or Stanford. And like, his older son went to this like nice, high school, it was like weird, but he was a really eccentric guy. And he said something that I thought was really helpful, actually, when I was writing my essays. And so what he said was, for every four words that you write, one of them is going to be good. So sit down, and literally like he called it like word vomit, like just like, keep writing until you absolutely have nothing else to say like, don’t worry about word counts when you’re first writing, because if you like, see an essay has a 600 word count, and you write 600. Words, if like someone who’s really good, cuts that down, you’re going to end up with 200 words, you know. And so for every 600 word essay, he wanted me to write 2500 words, for every 200 word essay, he wanted me to write 1000 words like literally just keep writing until you have nothing to write about. And also, don’t, something that he had me do is like, don’t write your don’t write essays to the prompt, write your essays, and then work them to the prompt later. And the reason why this happens is because things in your life can be applied to so many different prompts. What these schools really care about is learning more about you like, yeah, they asked you about an obstacle that you faced, but what they really care about is just learning more about you. And if you write about something that maybe was a more unconventional obstacle, that’s fine, because they’re still learning so much about you. And they’ll appreciate that. But if you kind of look at the prompt and say, Oh, obstacle, like, I don’t have that many obstacles in my life, and you try to, like, in some ways confine your life experiences to what your understanding of a standard obstacle is, that your essay is not going to be as good as it could have been. So that’s my two things that I followed when I was playing college is write like crazy, literally sit down for an afternoon and just write force yourself to sit down in front of someone else. And like, literally just write so you can’t get distracted. And it’s important to look at the prompts, like I would say collect all the prompts and have like an overview of what all these prompts are asking you. But when you’re writing an essay, don’t write it for a specific prompt.

Kamila
Yeah, that makes sense. And all your advisor gives very unique but seems like very good advice. So when you were writing these essays, so it appears that you didn’t have the stress, at least the foremost stress of like word count and such. So when writing these essays, how would you say how do you define like obstacles or like periods of growth? So how did you approach that if it wasn’t like, I guess within the word count, or what you think the college expects of you?

Kate
Yeah. So I would say there’s two groups of essays you can write, you can write about things that are on your resume that impacted you. And this is like a completely valid thing to write about. You can also write about completely random things that just happened to your life. And for some reason you remember them. And I think that’s always a good place to start is just thinking, like, what are specific memories that I have that I retain that are important to me? That I remember because I mean, like you are, have been alive for 18 years. If you remember something specifically, it must have been for a reason. So really dig deep and think about like, Why do I remember this? What is the impact that it had on me, and sometimes it’s like the most mundane things that make for a really interesting essay, like, there was an essay that went like viral like 10 years ago, maybe called like the Costco essay, or something. And it’s about, it’s literally about this girl who likes going to Costco. And she like, apparently gotten to like Stanford and Harvard, and like all the big schools, um, and I think it especially means a lot when you can take something relatable and, like normal in many ways, and make it unique. Because like, imagine you’re an admissions officer, and you’re reading like essay after essay after essay about someone who helped A Child do something, and it changed their life, you know what I mean? Like,

Kate
you get bored because they have to read, that kind of thing gets so tiring,

Kate
but like, let’s say you’re reading an essay, and it’s about how you really like to go to Costco. And it’s like, I like to go to Costco. Like, this is so fun, you know, um, and I think a lot of times, like, it obviously, depends on how good of a writer you are. Like, for example, there was this one college essay I read, that was about how this guy loves to procrastinate. And so in, he was thinking, it’s like, kind of hard to explain, but like, he really amplified his message through the style of writing, like the whole essay was about how he would come up with all of these contraptions in order to like, help him procrastinate more, and you kind of learn like, oh, wow, this guy is so inventive. He’s so creative, he like, is very introspective. And like, he’s an engineer, like you learn all those things through reading this essay about how he likes to procrastinate, and you like, wouldn’t think that that’s necessarily a good thing to write about. But it helps them learn a lot more about you. And I think a lot of times, like, people like to think about, like, What do others want to see from me? What is the standard? Like what, you know, what does it mean to be a good student? And you have to remember that these colleges, like, okay, the top colleges are looking for students who are changing the definition of student like, they’re, they’re being extra in some way that makes them really special, like they’re looking for students that are making impact and making change and like being the standard isn’t really what they’re looking for, if that makes sense.

Kamila
Yeah, that makes sense. Because there’s a bunch of people who, like, have the same GPA and like are, you know, presidents of a bunch of clubs, but what distinguishes you from all those other very achieved applicants? Yeah.

Kate
And the thing is, like, who are you? Like, if somebody asked me, Who am I, I wouldn’t say, Oh, I’m the founder of this summer camp, blah, blah, blah. Like, I would say, like, oh, you know, I’m a girl who likes engineering, and adventuring traveling the world like, all these things, are so much more important than to who you are in, like, in your in my opinions, like, in your opinion. And essentially, all of college application is just a college admissions officer asking you who are you? And so if you all you’re putting out there is I’m the president of this club. I’m the founder of this club. Like, you don’t sound like a great person to get to know, you know,

Kamila
yeah. It’s like very formal and professional. Yeah, exactly. So with that being said, with your common app essay, at least, and actually, we can talk about your supplementals, too. Because your, your, your advisor, also like to help you with those as well. So with that advice that he gave about forgetting the word count for getting the prompt, just kind of just right, was that more stress or less stress for you.

Kate
So definitely takes a lot of time, I will admit that I would after school every day, I would like drive to his office and sit there and write for like five hours and then go home. And so if you have an after school job if you have other things like that, and I was very lucky to have dedicated a lot of time to just this. I would definitely start early start in August. Like you don’t even need to know the prompts to start writing. Just start writing. Just sit down, you know, enjoy a nice cup of tea and start writing. Um and I would say, for me having less structure is more helpful. This definitely is different for different people. And so I wouldn’t say like, if, if you heard what I just said about how to go right, and you were like, I hate that, then don’t do it, you know, don’t make yourself suffer, just to follow this random girl on a podcast on what she says how to write your essays. Um, but I would say find an advisor, if you can, if you have the means find an advisor who you vibe with, because I think if you vibe with them, then they’re probably going to have a method that you’re going to vibe with. And if you don’t have an advisor, like if you aren’t able to find a good one, or whatever, I would just say, like, really focus on if you were to read a read a lot, read a lot of other people’s essays, I think that’s good to know. And after you read it, think to yourself, What did I learn about this person? And do I like that? Do I want to be like that? Do I want to be friends with them? And I think those are the questions that admissions officers are asking themselves after they read applications is Do I like this person? Do I want them at the school? And you want to emulate that when you write an essay? So just keep that in mind when you’re writing?

Kamila
And what did you write your let’s first talk about common app? Because that’s the really, that’s probably the longest essay you write. Right? So can you tell us a little bit about what you wrote about that? What you wrote that about

Kate
my my common app, actually, so I mean, like under this method of just like writing whatever my common app was super, like, I would say, unexpected on what it ended up being. It’s like when I first started writing, before I met my college advisor, I started writing about this time, when I was young, and I was walking with my grandma in China, and we saw a child without an arm. And he was like, asking for money. And my grandma, I was, you know, I was like, grandma, like, we should go help him. And my grandma was like, No, you can’t do that. You can’t trust people in China, like, and then she kind of told me the story about how gangs or like bad people in China will kidnap children and cut off their arms and make them ask for money because they garner more sympathy. It’s like this is this really like, heavy, sad story, that that was really impactful on me, because like, that still scares me, right? Like, that’s terrifying. And I was writing this essay, and I was writing it and it just wasn’t good. It wasn’t there. And I spent so much time writing on it. And it just, it felt like I was beating a dead horse by the end. And my college advisor was like, I think it’s time to put this story to rest. I don’t think that it’s going anywhere. And that was a really hard like thing to come to, because I’d spent so much blood and tears on just like trying to make this story, something that is so meaningful on and I couldn’t get it there. And so I scrapped that story. And I was really sad. And I was just like writing a ton about other things in my life. My common app actually ended up being something super interesting, I would say it was on the more kind of what I was saying earlier, like, you can write about Super mundane things, and you can write about things that you know, you didn’t really accomplish. And I wrote about my relationship with religion. And I wrote about how, you know, one day these Jesus people came to my door, and they said, Hello, do you believe in Jesus? And I was like, um, yeah, like, sure. Like, I didn’t want to say no to them. And, and so they’re like, Will you pray with us? And I was like, Okay, sure. And I like I didn’t know how to do it. And I was very, like, a like, fish out of water. And, and I kind of talked about, you know, how I mean, I’m definitely not recounting this as well as I wrote it, obviously. Like, I talked about how growing up you know, my parents are atheist. We never talked about religion. It was kind of like one of those things where we would see on Fox News or something about some Christian person and my dad would be like, Haha, like so funny. Like it was never really talked about. And I was a like, stout like nonbeliever growing up like, I was just like, I think it’s stupid. Like, I think we should put faith in science, like all those things. And then like, my grandpa died, like in high school, and I was like, feeling really sad. And I went on a run and I was just like, you know, laying on the grass, staring at the sky as like an emo teenager does and I was just like, alright, you know, I’m gonna give it a try. So like, I like prayed and like, I didn’t know if I did a right I didn’t know like, what happened, but it I felt a lot better. Like after I did that, like I just for some reason, I felt a lot better. And the moral of my essay was kind of just on the stance of like, Well, I use some like Socrates chrome quote or something that was like, and knowing that, you know, nothing is more important or something like, what was it? Knowing you know, nothing? It? Oh my God, let me find it. Um, this is now bothering me. Okay, found it. Socrates said, True knowledge exists in knowing that you know, nothing. So that was kind of like, what I framed my essay around is the fact that, you know, I used to be super super against religion, I’m like, it’s the cause so many bad things in the world, but blah, blah. And, you know, I’m still not Christian, like, I wouldn’t identify with any religion right now. But it’s, um, it’s worthwhile to discount your own biases and be open minded. And that’s in reflecting on yourself. That was my essay, I definitely did not tell it as well, just now as I did when I was actually writing it, you know, because this is like, months and months of editing and writing goes into this essay. So I hope that didn’t sound too stupid of an essay.

Kamila
That sounds amazing. That’s an interesting topic. Because, you know, you hear the regular topics of, oh, this happened to me. And I overcame this obstacle or like, you know, sports people write about sports a lot. So you hear a lot of those essays? So that’s, that’s a very interesting essay. So can you talk about the supplemental essays and how you tackled those? I guess you could say, and kind of what did you focus those about? Because you don’t have? Whether you like it or not, you don’t have like a word count to like, go off of so? Did you struggle more with those? Or, like, how did you approach those?

Kate
Yeah, um, I actually didn’t have I don’t remember having that many different kinds of supplemental essays. And so there’s definitely the essay that’s like, why the school and then there’s the essay that’s like, why this major, and then there’s the essay that’s like, tell us about a community you’re a part of, I think that’s like a pretty common as a topic. And then, like, some colleges just have like us free space, like, do whatever. I know, there’s also the prompt, that’s like, tell us a belief you have like that kind of thing. And to be honest, I don’t remember most of my essays, um, I did have one really unique essay that like, didn’t really belong in any of those categories, that I submitted it for one of my colleges. But it was a poem about, like, how to cover up a murder. So it’s, like, very interesting topic. It was just something I ended up writing. And I because I love crime shows. And so I just ended up writing it. My advisor was like, well, we should put it somewhere. Um, yeah, so um, honestly, like, the only ones that I feel like I can give unique advice for is like the why the school. And for the wider school, you want to be as specific as possible, you want to make it so that if you replace the name of the school with any other school out there, the entire essay doesn’t make sense. And the reason why you want to do that is because you want to show that you did your research that you really care about the school, because any school that asks you why the school wants to know that you really want to go there, like Harvard and Stanford Don’t ask why the school because everyone applies there. And yeah, so you want to be really, really specific and talk about a variety of things. Talk about academic endeavors, talk about research, talk about community talk about social, social, like traditions, literally just like talk about everything. And that’s a good way to get that done. And as for the why this major, I think it’s really important to start with a story that doesn’t have to be related to that specific topic, but like having an underlying story behind why you want to be in whatever major, I think is key, because you don’t want to sound like you don’t want to sound like a record player. You know, like, I did this research and I thought it was really cool. And then I met this professor and I thought they were really cool. So I want to study this. It’s just so boring. Like, I don’t want to read that. And so I you know, but if you start with like so I mean a lot of people if they say I want to study bio biology, the very common very common one and saying, you know, when I found out about my grandpa’s cancer, I felt like my whole world had changed. It’s very common starting line for that kind of essay, but um, think about like a story like what invigorates you to want to study what you want to study and it’s okay if you need to make something up like it doesn’t. I don’t expect every high schooler out there to know exactly why they want to study like chemistry, you know, it’s it’s hard to say. So that’s a little bit like specific advice I can give for like kinds of essays out there. I know there’s a lot of different prompts. But like, what I said before, I think still applies, like keep writing. Don’t be thinking about the prompts when you’re writing it. But like after you write something, and you’ll see the connection between prompts and what you wrote. And that’s, I think, when you can really make the essay more powerful, is starting with this base, and then saying, Okay, this prompt is asking for this, I’m going to tailor this essay now to this prompt.

Kamila
That’s amazing advice. And overall, like you gave really good advice on the different components of your application. So in your case, since you did have like, really strong like points on many parts of your application, which do you think stood out the most? Do you think your essays really did it for you? extracurriculars? I mean, grades for like these top schools, everyone pretty much has the same grades and such. So what do you think really, like made you stand out a little bit? What made you what made you a really competitive applicant? Like I want this girl at my school,

Kate
it was definitely my extracurriculars, I would say, um, I actually like so I don’t know if you know the FERPA law. But under FERPA, any student has the right to access their academic records, including their application, if you’re a student at that school. And so like, you know, some schools like Stanford will, like, you know, there’s rumor that they burn all the applications so that the students can see them. But most schools, you can request under the FERPA law to see your application. So I ended up seeing my application. And all I remember, really, I don’t remember the specifics anymore, but like, at the end, they rate the school, or they rate the student on like three things, they rate them on background essays. And, like the college like, for me, it’s Trinity, which is the College of Arts and Sciences, and I think I got like, I don’t remember what the standards were was like, three, so I got like, the middle for essay and, like Trinity. And then for, for background, I got like, the best one like, special or I don’t remember what the label was. Um, so yeah, I definitely think it was my extracurriculars, I definitely did do a lot of stuff. I think I could have done a better job in tailoring my extracurriculars to what I applied for because I had done all these extracurriculars. And then I was like, Oh, I’m going to apply for computer science and like, really didn’t make sense for my application. So I think my background would have made more sense. And my essays would have made more sense if I had had a more cohesive persona, I guess. But yeah, I mean, I definitely think the quantity and quality of extracurriculars I did was powerful.

Kamila
And one last thing before we move on to, you know, actual, like college experience is, why did you choose computer science as a major? In the beginning, I remember you saying English was your favorite subject in high school. So I would assume you went into something more like humanities based?

Kate
Yeah, I mean, kind of funny story. I just like, I was just like, yeah, I want to study computer science, like there wasn’t really a reason behind it. Um, I mean, English is still my favorite subject. But, you know, when you’re thinking about opportunities after college, I don’t want to get an English PhD, I don’t want to be a professor. I don’t want to do research, I want to go out and industry, I want to maybe do business, that kind of stuff. And being a computer science major just sets you up a lot better for that. And so I’m definitely I was definitely thinking more on the practical side. But if I were to apply to colleges, again, I would probably apply as something else, maybe like a purple major, something that made more sense. But yeah, I’m a very practical person. And so I was like, Yeah, practically, I want to study computer science.

Kamila
Okay, so I should have lied. We’re not at the end of high school so far. So can you tell us quickly about the colleges that you chose to apply to? And how did you approach making that college list? Like, I’m gonna apply to this, this, this, these these schools?

Kate
Yeah, for me, it was kind of more of an opposite process where I took the top 20 schools and then just eliminated all the schools that I didn’t want to go to. And so I didn’t apply to UPenn. I didn’t apply to MIT. And these are kind of subjective reasons to I was kind of just like, I don’t want to, um, I didn’t apply to Tufts, I didn’t apply to like, I don’t remember what the other like, I didn’t play Chicago because they don’t have an engineering school. So that one kind of was more of a reason. Um, but yeah, that was kind of I ended up applying to 13 schools, including, like my safeties, and whatever. I applied to U DUB, which is like our state school, and then my safety school was Boston College. And then I also like, my fit schools were kind of like rice, and I don’t remember the other schools I applied to, um, and then yeah, and then I applied to like the top 10 schools, which I feel like is a pretty standard thing to do when you go to a really competitive school.

Kamila
And so one thing I I have a question about is, was finance not a too big of a concern in your family? Like, did you have the ability to be more open and flexible with which schools you wanted to go to? Instead of saying like, Oh, this school has a scholarship, so I’m going to try to apply for this school because they can give me a lot of aid. Yeah, I

Kate
didn’t apply to. Like, I didn’t really take that into consideration. I know, I’m really lucky to have been able to do so. Um, I know there are a lot of schools, for example, if you go to a Texas high school, and you are the valedictorian, you get a full ride to any Texas State School. And so there’s definitely a lot of programs out there, it wasn’t one of the considerations I had. But for all the top schools as well, they will have both really great financial aid, and also merit scholarships. So I have a lot of friends at Duke who are full ride merit scholarships, I also have a lot of friends at Duke who are half tuition or full tuition and financial aid. And so I think that another thing is like, that’s also something you can negotiate with your schools after you get in. And so I wouldn’t, if you have the means to apply to more schools, which I think they give waivers for a lot of the common app submissions, I would apply to like, all the schools you want to and then see what kind of packages they can give you because you can go back to a school and say, Hey, this other school gave me a full ride and you only gave me half tuition, like is it possible to get a full ride? Um, and you can kind of use that as leverage.

Kamila
Interesting. So of this, so you selected all these schools, and you apply to them? Which schools did you get accepted deferred and waitlisted? From? Yeah, so

Kate
I applied early to Yale, I got deferred and then ultimately rejected. I got into Duke Cornell, rice, and Boston College and my like, and then U DUB. And then I was waitlisted. At Brown, and Harvard. And yeah, yeah, that was it. I think, um, I might have been waitlisted at Northwestern. I don’t remember. Um, yeah. So yeah. So that was what it came down to.

Kate
And why did you choose Duke?

Kate
Yeah. So I mean, I didn’t want to go to Cornell. No, not because of that. One is like it’s so far away. It’s like from Seattle, it’s like you have to apply to JFK. And then you transfer to like, like the Ithaca airport, or you take like a four hour bus ride to get there. And it’s just really far away. Another thing was because like, it’s a very strong engineering school, and I wanted to go to a liberal arts university. And also like, retrospectively, like, I think Duke was a great fit for me because we have such like a work hard play hard environment. I mean, that’s not for everyone, but I think it’s for me, and that was something that I another thing is Cornell is so big. It has like 14,000 students and do cost 7000. And that was just another thing. I just think Duke was really grateful for me.

Kamila
And with that, we come to the end of part one of my very thorough interview with Kate, if you enjoyed that, please subscribe so you know when Part Two comes out, also, make sure to check out my blog, a college kid.com on there, I write various articles about various college topics. But other than that, hope to see you in the next one.